Matt Hasselbeck is the player in question.

Iguana is FOR Hasselbeck being a valuable fantasy QB this season
Mattman00 is AGAINST Hasselbeck being a valuable fantasy QB this season

Do your best to convince us your side is the right one.

"He who has begun has half done. Dare to be wise; begin!"
--Horace

This message has been edited. Last edited by: TenTimes,

Matt Hasselbeck has been on the rise the past two seasons. So why would he not be a top QB going into this season? The answer is in the schedule.

Here is the schedule for 2004-2005 and a summary of what Hasselbeck did the last time he faced these teams in the past 2 years (for division games, I used the #s from the last 2 games):

Sept. 12 at New Orleans (137 Pass, 2 TD)
Sept. 19 at Tampa Bay 4:05 p.m.
Sept. 26 San Francisco 4:15 p.m. (207, 1TD)
Oct. 3 Open Date
Oct. 10 St. Louis 4:15 p.m. (256, 2TD)
Oct. 17 at New England 1:00 p.m.
Oct. 24 at Arizona 4:15 p.m. (175, 2TD)
Oct. 31 Carolina 4:05 p.m.
Nov. 7 at San Francisco 4:05 p.m. (315, 2TD)
Nov. 14 at St. Louis 1:00 p.m. (246, 1TD)
Nov. 21 Miami 4:05 p.m.
Nov. 28 Buffalo 4:15 p.m.
Dec. 6 Dallas 9:00 p.m. (131, 1TD)
Dec. 12 at Minnesota 1:00 p.m. (218, 0TD)
Dec. 19 at New York Jets 1:00 p.m.
Dec. 26 Arizona 4:15 p.m. (179, 1TD)
Jan. 2 Atlanta (298, 1TD)

For the teams that there is data for, Hasselbeck averaged 216 yards and 1.3 TDs.

What about the teams that there is no data for?

Here's their pass defense rankings last year in terms of yards allowed:

Tampa Bay(3rd), New England(15), Carolina(9), Miami(19), Buffalo (2nd), Jets(10).

All of the other games look pretty tough. Even with Miami and New England's mediocre pass defense, those teams could easily limit Hasselbeck's production.

So where does that put Hassey's value? Anyone who thinks he is a top 5 QB is going to be in for a rude awakening. Based on the schedule, I'd put him at 8-10 at best.

And this, from Darrell Jackson's #1 fan.

*** NOTE *** fantasy point quotes below are from a scoring system of 1 pt per 25 yrds passing, 4 pts per passing TD, 1 pt per 10 yrds rushing and 6 pts for rushing TDs.

It's funny you would go strength of schedule FOR your arguement, that's exactly where I was going with mine. I had to revise it a bit to address it more fully.... I can sum this up in 7 words: 4 games against the Cardinals and 49ers! Throw in the lacking defense of the Vikings and New Orleans and the 2 shoot outs with the Rams and the schedule looks pretty darn good to me. Tampa Bay and New England on the road could be tough outings but of most of the other potentially bad matchups are home games where Seattle was incrediably good last year. Buffalo, Miami and Dallas are back-to-back-to-back homers and the Carolina game is another home affair sandwiched between a couple of cupcake divisional games.

I'm not sure what your yardage numbers are exactly suppose to represent but last year in games against opponents they face again this year, Hasselbeck scored 14 against NO, 21 and 11 vs ARZ, 20 and 13 vs STL and 8 against the Vikings. The 8 against the Vikings is a bit of a concern but likely more an aberation than the norm. Anything beyond that has to be taken with a grain of salt. It took Hasselbeck a couple of seasons to grow into a legitimate NFL QB.

Not enough for you? Ok, I've got more. Seattle has a very solid WR corps, a top notch RB and an improved defense. The offense will be huge and Hasselbeck will score his share.

There has been a lot of talk recently on here about QB consistency. You want consistency? Hasselbeck started all 16 games last season and scored double digit fantasy points in 14 of the 16 games. The other 2 were an 8 (@ Min) and 9 (@ GB). He averaged 17 points a game and had a median score of 13. You also want big play capabilities to help push you over the top that week or 2 you need it? He had 6 games of 20 or more points including big days of 25, 26 and 35. Hasselbeck had a slow start after having huge "Favre-ian" expectations heaped on him when he first arrived in Seattle. The initial hype was somewhat premature as he had quite a learning curve to climb. Somewhat quietly, Hasselbeck climbed the crest of said curve put up the 3rd best overall fantasy point total for QBs last season and was 6th in average points per game. Just to note, for those of you in leagues that penalize for INTs, Hasslebeck had 26 TDs to only 16 INTs, which is a fairly solid ratio and a steady improvement over the 15 and 10 of the year before. I strongly expect the improvement to continue.

Hasselbeck may not be as flashy or have the legs of a Culpepper or Vick, he may not have the "pedigre" of a Manning, but he does put up the points consistently week in and week out. I'll take that over the flash anyday. I would rather have Culpepper or a couple of other guys if the price was right but Hasselbeck should be about the #4 QB this year and will be a heck of a lot better value in the 3rd to 5th round than Manning and Culpepper will be in the 1st. The good thing about Hasselbeck is that the disappointment of a couple seasons ago will hopefully stick in a few owners minds and hopefully allow him to fall to a legitimate position for drafting a QB. I hope other owners in my leagues have him rated "at 8-10 at best". I will happily steal him in the 4th or 5th round!

Your scoring system illustrates my point . . .

With an average of 216 and 1.3 TDs, and using your scoring system, you're looking at 12-13 points a week.

And: "I can sum this up in 7 words: 4 games against the Cardinals and 49ers!"

San Francisco (207, 1TD) = 12 pts.
San Francisco (315, 2TD) = 20 pts.
(16 pt. avg.)

Arizona (175, 2TD) = 15 pts.
Arizona (179, 1TD) = 11 pts.
(13 pt. avg.)

Even the easiest opponents project to 13 and 16 pts. That's hardly the average you want in a #1 QB.

But averages don't tell the whole story. Hey, it's clear that Hasselbeck is capable of some big games. But last year, his 3 biggest games came against Cinci, Baltimore, and Cleveland, teams he won't face again this year.

The question is whether or not he'll be able to have the same success against some of the tougher defenses out there. I don't think he will.

First, you have to give him credit for all his points, not just the passing stats. As I previously conceded, Hasselbeck won't get you the rushing stats of a Culpepper or Garcia, etc, but you still cannot discount the few he does get. So here are his actually stats and points:

Arizona (175, 2TD and 1 RuTD) = 21 pts.
Arizona (179, 1TD) = 11 pts.
(16 pt avg)

San Francisco (207, 1TD, 17 RuYrds) = 13 pts
San francisco (315, 2TD) = 20 pts
(16.5 pt avg)

I'll take 16 pts a game out of my QB any day, especially if I am able to draft him in the 3rd to 5th round after grabbing a couple stud RBs and/or WRs early while the top couple of QBs will only score about 18-20 a game anyway.

Also, I am sure that everyone will agree that SF is a worse team this year than last (except maybe 49ersgold ), which should increase Hasselbecks chances at big plays in those games.

When you consider all of this with Hasselbeck's propensity to improve his play each year that he has had the chance and the improved nature of the Seahawk team as a whole, there is no reason to believe that he can't continue to improve and continue to be a top 3-5 QB despite a slightly increased schedule difficulty.

Hasselbeck should easily throw for 3500 to 4000 yards and 25 to 30 TDs. That's a top 5 QB if you ask me.

"I'll take 16 pts a game out of my QB any day, especially if I am able to draft him in the 3rd to 5th round after grabbing a couple stud RBs and/or WRs early while the top couple of QBs will only score about 18-20 a game anyway. "

I guess it depends on the league and the number of owners, but in my league, the elite players go in rounds 1 and 2 (10 team league).

Usually, the top 4-5 QBs are gone by then . . .

Seems like Hasselbeck is right on the outside, looking in. Though I agree with many of your points and think he has potential, I still can't rank him any higher than #8.

First, I want to know what 7 QBs you are taking ahead of Hasselbeck? I'll give you Culpepper and Manning as #1 and 2 and couldn't conceivably try to put him above either one. After that, however, there isn't anyone that offers the consistentcy, team offensive potential and relative lack of injury concerns that one would want in a high rated QB.

I could make a reasonable arguement for Vick and/or McNabb to possibly be #3 and/or 4 but the serious injury concern for each of them due to their running styles makes it far too easy to argue against them. Someone out there might still try to argue the McNair case but he's becoming more injury prone than Fragile Freddy ever was in his "prime". Other than that, I can't imagine who else you might try to argue for being 5-7. With Seattle's improvements and Hasselbeck having another year to mature, I believe that Hasselbeck seriously has the potential to put up Manning like numbers. His style (much like Manning and Favre) lends to injury free play barring a freak accident and thus you shouldn't have to worry much about his starting status. At the very worst you should get about 14-17 points each and every week with solid potential for 20+ on any given day.

Next, I want a piece of action in any league where 4-5 QBs are taken in the first 20 picks! To be fair, I do believe you said in another post that you play 2 starting QBs in your lineup. I haven't played in a 2 QB league but I still can't imagine having 5 taken in 2 rounds of a 10 team league. I'll gladly give you one or 2 QBs early in exchange for the top RBs and then "settle" for middle tier QBs in the 5th to 8th rounds or so. There are far too many available and the point differential isn't enough to make QBs a value pick in the first couple of rounds.

Boy, I knew this was coming! Here's my top #10 QBs as it stands. Remember, it's MAY, and a lot can change by draft day:

1) Manning
2) Culpepper
3) Vick
4) McNabb
5) Brady
6) McNair
7) Pennington
8) Bulger
9) Hasselbeck
10) T. Green

Now, before anyone jumps down my throat about this, you've got to realize that in my league:

1) Passing yards and overall touchdowns are as heavily weighted as rushing yards (it's a rotisserie league, which is very different from head to head leagues)
2) We are allowed to keep 3 players for the next 3 years.
3) We start 2 QBs (trust me, it does affect the order. To be successful, you almost have to have a "running" QB and a "passing" QB)

I know comparing my league to most is like apples and oranges, so I tried to position my arguments based on a standard scoring system.

I still believe Hasselbeck is a 16pt a week QB, and I think there are better options out there.

From the "T.O." debate:

"Stats, Inc. has stats on dropped passes and according to that source Laveranues Coles and Darrell Jackson are the only two WRs in the NFL with more drops than Owens last year. "

Though I hate to admit it, D. Jackson does have a problem . . .