This one's for you Glass.. sorry but I definetly tend to agree with Smith's thinking more than yours, I've had a gut feeling about Jones ever since I took him his rookie year in the 4th and I think he's ready to break out, how can you argue with a RB who's got a such a great nose for the endzone?

ht tp://foo tball guys .com/pod june26thj ones.htm

fixed the link, of course without all the spaces

[ 07-11-2002, 08:32 AM: Message edited by: TenTimes ]

I guess my question would be is if he or pittman
will put up the better numbers?

Ten,

1.Your link doesn't work.
2.Jones will not do well.
3.Boston's numbers will suffer because of the lack of a running game.
4.Plummer will again throw more INTs than TDs.

Boston will still be a top 10 WR but his total yards will decrease.

Yeah I know all the stuff Jones added muscle in the off season "which will make him a more powerful runner". But the guy couldn't find water on the sidelines without a divining rod much less a hole the line creates.

Yea I guess fantasyinsights ******'s out the name of the website in URLs. Oh well, I guess it wasn't that important, the guy makes some good points though

ravage,boston's season stats will be affected by his bum leg? play through the pain?surgury now and he miss the first 3 weeks, if he plays through the pain he will undoubtably have some surgury with time off in mid season and Gonzaga ,just for future reference, it shouldn't matter cause he plays for tampa bay now,and tenX i see t jones getting a bulk of the carries(plays)and if he has bulked up, he is worth a 7th rounder to me. i am not to high on this guy due to his past performance but would be willing to take a chance in the 7th

ravage my only source i heard this from is this message board and he isnt posted as injured on the offensive depth chart....sometimes i like to be way ahead of myself(kind of like murphy's law)and no you cant sell me some land in the sahara. believe me, i hope by draft day i hear different reports because he is in the top 5 wr's on my list.......nfl.com also

[ 07-14-2002, 04:36 PM: Message edited by: gingerbreadman ]

Oh-yeah, he's been busted for dope and now he has
an injury, been doin' roids and gang-bangin. Cant
wait to draft him!

Jones has to prove himself this year. He is a risk at the RB position and one better have a solid number 1 (Faulk, Green, Alexander) if they are going to draft Jones or it could be a long year. The proof in the pudding says that he has not done diddly squat!

He had 6 TDs last year to Pittman's 5, on only half as many carries, and their yards per carry were almost identical.

Edit- Looking back on this post.. this could get ugly, looks like it's gonna be me against the world with this guy. Let me say for the record that I wouldn't want Jones as more than a 3rd RB and I wouldn't take him until I had a QB and atleast 2 WRs unless there was nothing left at both those positions, then I MIGHT gamble on him in the 5th.

[ 07-11-2002, 08:53 AM: Message edited by: TenTimes ]

Im WITH you TenX.. I feel ANY RB that is in a starting role has SOME value. Especially a young guy, that still can improve. He has shown he can pound out some TD's as well in my view.

I also do agree, that you wait on this guy and hopefully get him for a #3 RB. Maybe #2 if you have a #3 that's got good potential to be a #2 also.

We WILL get pretty beaten up over this though!!
Alot of Jones busters, but I bet the same would have been said about P. Holmes / A. Smith / Etc.
up until last year.

[ 07-11-2002, 09:19 AM: Message edited by: HawkFin ]

10X, that makes sense. i think the guy has been a bust but he's worth being a #3 due to the fact that he starts with little back-up pressure. one note though...that yards per carry difference may seem slight but it adds up over the course of a season. and the TD's...that's what happens when you have one RB on the field for 60 yards who goes out on pass-patterns...he gets taken out so they have "fresh legs" to punch it in the endzone...nothing more. jones has been GIVEN the starting job since he was a rookie and pittman kept on EARNING it back.

what YPC does show is that the O-line sucked last year. for some reason several sights/mags have said that the cards have a good, young line returning this year. returning? well, if they are just blooming then jones value goes up. average RB behind a good line means good numbers.

personally, i roll my eyes when i hear "he's added 10 pounds of muscle" or "has a nose for the endzone". they're right up there with "he's in the best shape of his career" and "he's catching everything in sight"...cliches that sound important but aren't. terrell davis has come back from the off-season "in the best shape of his career" twice now...and has yet to do anything worthwhile.

i'll draft jones in the right situation...but his production will have more to do with the o-line than anything he does personally. that should be what we watch for.

Adding muscle may not mean much progress.. but I'd rather hear "he's added 10 pounds of muscle" than "he lost a step".

i just checked out the jones p.o.d at that other site (that dare not be mentioned apparently). pretty good info really, if the line is as good as they say. one note of caution...it's always been my observation that there are pass protect O-lines and run-block O-lines. it sounds to me like they are assembling the former. maybe someone can do a study of size/weight related to pass/run blocking production. i know denver had an "undersized" line when TD was going 6 yards before contact. they IMHO were a better run-blocking line than dallas during the dynasty years. bigger does not necessarily mean better when it comes to run blocking. still, it is encouraging to see people analyze that factor when making predictions.

LOL, true 10X, true.

*sigh*

Thomas Jones just got more talk here than he has since he has joined the league.

Yes he will start the season as the starter. After about week 8 and no production he will be benched for some no name backup because he is not good enough to be a starter.

Ten, yes he averaged almost the same amount of yards per carry. They came in junk time, where he probably should have averaged about a yard more than Pittman. And those six touchdowns all came within the 5 yard line.

Bottom line is he has never established himself as an everydown back behind a decent, not great offensive line. Putting on the extra weight doesn't help him see the holes the lines open for him.

While he starts, Plummer, Boston, and Freddie Jones numbers all take a dive downward. But Boston is still high on my draft board, just not as high as last year.

Those 6 5yard TD's are VERY IMPORTANT in my view though. That seperates him from the Dunn's & T. Barbers.
That tells me he can pound out the ones that come very tough for most backs. (or light backs)

If he got 6 TD's in less then 100 carries, then what makes you think he wont have good stats after week 8 when he might have 200 carries. The more carries, the more chance to break off some big ones/chances.

I dont buy it.... He'll at the worst post Pittman like stats. Personally, I think Arizona never REALLY gave him a true shot like there doing now though.
And even so, didn't P. Holmes lose his job numerous times???
Maybe they worked him in slow? I felt it was always Pittman's job, and HE never fully kept it.
Actually neithier did, but they've also added weapons of late.

I'm with you on this one Ten. I think Jones is going to bust out this year. He won't be top 5, but all signs point to him having a good season (GREAT o-line, added strength, 3rd year in system, will get most of the carries, better passing game (Jones)).

But yes pass on this guy at all costs... TELL YOUR FRIENDS!!!

just reading all this makes me think, maybe you guys are on to something? the guy got junk td's and junk yards (not to many) and now he is the man with a few more weapons. in a 2 rb league with only 1 starter i may take him as a # 2 late.
it is good reading though

Somebody had to get the ball down to the 5 yard line for him Hawk. I agree, I will take a junk TD as fast as I wold a 50 yard run for a TD.

The guy has proven he can't find the holes and he has no vision. You can learn many things, but vision I am not sure is one. The guy runs like a horse with blinders on. He doesn't see anything except for what is right in front of him.

I think some people are dreaming if they think Jones will put up Pittman type numbers. Simple fact is, Arizona has wanted Jones to be their starter since he was drafted and every year he has came into camp as the number 1. Pittman has never came into camp as the starter. He simply beat out JOnes every year.

Being fro St. Louis I am still a Cardinal fan is sad as that is. I watched nearly every game since they drafted Jones. Simple fact is he has never showed any signs of being a good runner and hasn't improved in three years.

Yes Holmes and probably many other running backs have been benched and came back to be good running backs, but each year I think you could probably see marked improvement. There has been no improvement from Jones. He still runs where the hole is supposed to be and looks at the defender right in front of him and is tackled on the first hit.

I hope he proves me wrong, but I am 99% sure he won't.